This is to be expected, though, when those in charge are 21 year old white boys who never even saw a black guy (except on TV) until they got to college. Discrimination is nothing new for Hoofer "leaders" or for the UW in general. The further you fall outside the 18-22 year old frat boy/girl demographic, the more trouble you're going to have. Recent comments have helped to reveal the seething xenophobia in Hoofers/the UW. For instance:
It is the job of an older man to be friendly, fatherly, and NOT engage at any other level with college age women than they would with their own daughter. That is sick, twisted, and SO wrong.
It is unclear whether that commenter is just trying to stir things up or if there's been a lot of incest in his family. And what does he mean by "older"..? If I'm 28, can I pursue a 21 year old? What if I'm 35--but don't look a day over 25? Our President-elect was 52 when he met his then-28-year old wife-to-be. Michael Douglas was 56 when he met the very hot 29 year old Catherine Zeta Jones circa 1999. Our commenter would call that "sick". I'd probably call it a good catch by MD--or maybe by CZJ. Things may be different for movie stars and billionaires, or maybe not.
According to that commenter, if you're over 40, sitting under the canopy, and not averting your eyes while female undergrads rig their boards, you're stalking them. That's absurd, of course, and it sounds a lot like age discrimination too. I personally don't think most men join HSC to meet women. They join to sail. On the other hand, the club is advertised as a social organization, and lots of people have met their future spouses in the club. Former commodores Chris Frye and Mike Larsen, for instance. It would be interesting to examine whether or not general club members are just as likely to meet their future spouses in Hoofers. If not, that would suggest some misbehaviour by those at the top.
Unfortunately HSC is run mostly by those spoiled white frat boys who enjoy bullying others--especially people who are different--just as they haze and abuse underclassmen pledging their fraternities. It's why there are virtually no mechanisms for mediation within the club, in Hoofers, or at the UW. Once you get a taste of being the abuser, it's a high that you come to crave. Mediation only helps the abusee, not the abuser.
Nor can the abusers be expected to correct themselves. They must be forced, by more decent people, to stop abusing and discriminating against others.
Thank you to everyone who just texted and called me to let me know this was here. I will stand strong, and I won't be a victim anymore. My name is Jeff Thurner and I used to be the victim of a girl I tried desperately to help. I don't care if my name is used positively or negatively... could we leave my medical history out of it please?
ReplyDelete-Jeff Thurner
Fleet Commander....
ReplyDeleteYou knew precisely what I meant about older men and young college girls. Unless you are an idiot. How do you make that leap from my comments to incest? That is twisted, as Frank said earlier. But you have STILL not answered the original question. What DOES constitute stalking, or sexual assault?
What are YOUR parameters for young girls who lie about being stalked or raped or otherwise abused by others? Are they ALL lying? Or do you not want to answer the question for some reason that your readers do not know?
YOU are not giving much much information, Fleet Commander. And many of us look to you FOR such information. Make it a bit less snide and a bit more informative and you would have a much larger readership.
A-NON
Sorry to post two comments, but I owe it to you to tell you that my phone has rung five times with long time readers wondering what in hell you are talking about. The definition of xenophobia is fear of strangers or foreigners. They are asking me how THIS applies to your post, which in truth, seems a bit snide and evasive.
ReplyDeleteWhat they are now asking, and this is long-term readers of your blog, is if you are fearful of something, or perhaps involved? That simply cannot be, right? As I have asked, PLEASE tell us what is going on, as well as why your post tonight was so odd. ALL of your regular readers want to be able to count in your for the REAL information.
This post makes it seem as though there is some deflection by you. Indeed, I have defended you on this, however, I am but one of many readers. Do NOT let your blog go off the rails, okay? You are the source of information and inspiration for many of us who feel left out.
Especially those of us who are younger members, but not white boys of privilege. Can you lay this all out for us please? I am getting confused, and am being attacked by Frank for an opinion that I thought was valid.
A-NON
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteI don't know what fuels you brother. I seen ya take hit after hit and keep on keeping on. Shame on "Her" and shame on Hoofers for doing all of this. I'll stand with ya broheim, jus let us know how.
I heard the term Gentle Giant, and the term go to for help, and I agree. I too was wondering why you weren't there this year helping like ya always had. We'll fix this for you man, just dont become bitter over it. you can call me anytime. #Firedave.
I'll text ya so u know who I am. Godforbid Dave knows who I am.
-JR
J
ReplyDeleteWhat happened to you Jeff? My wife and I thought you moved? You helped us out a lot over the years, but we missed ya this last year. We'll help if we can, you are a good man. I'll message you if your contact info is current in the hoofers site.
Friends
Ah, Fleet Commander....
ReplyDeletePerhaps you need to check a couple of facts yourself, huh? The CITY of Madison is over seventy percent white. U/W Madison, with 41.300 some undergrads and grad students has a less than a thousand Black students.
No offense intended here at all, but before you make remarks about not seeing Black Guys, perhaps you should find out how many there are? Hopefully you are not one of those Ivory Tower Liberals who thanks that Madison is the bastion of racial harmony. Because one cannot HAVE harmony with a race that is virtually non-existent on the campus, OR in the city.
Once again, many of us look to YOU for information, but there seems to be more snide remarks and innuendo lately than solid information. Why is this, I wonder? Are you afraid? Are you one of those men I spoke of the other night, a remark that you called twisted? Or are you just trying to keep a lid on reader loss. For I've more phone calls today asking what is going on with what used to be a good source of information.
On age differences? There was no incest in my family Fleet Commander. No family either. For you to presume AND write this is tantamount to slander, so be careful. VERY careful. In the event that I was not clear enough for you, a fifty-five year old man sitting under the canopy enjoying the day? No problem.
A fifty-five year old man drooling as they look at the bodies of "hot college age girls", as one of your other readers commented, is rather twisted and sick. I would not want to look at the computers of men like that, I think. So DO you agree with this, or are we going to fall back to Michael Douglas? OR, have you had enough of my incessant questions to block me.
We READ this place for information, Fleet Commander. Can you PLEASE quit with the slurs and provide some? Used to be that you DID provide good information, Fleet Commander. But other than trying to get you to answer my original question, I've not seem much information. Please make your blog what it was?
Thanks
A-NON
Again, fleet Commander, can we have a thread dedicated to what happened to Jeff, and how we can stop it from happening to anyone else?!?
ReplyDeleteIt's sad to see all this fighting on this blog. Where's the love? Lot of people need help these days. Especially help with all of their family incest issues. Not all old men are your father...get some counseling.
ReplyDeleteI'll try to respond to a few questions, but I don't have all the answers.
ReplyDeleteFor those too lazy to look up the statute, basically anything you do--other than sleeping at home alone with the covers pulled up over your head--could be considered "stalking". That's according to Wisconsin's absurd legal definition of the term. You might check out the book "Three Felonies A Day" which discusses how we all inadvertently commit crimes almost every day of our lives. Not real crimes, but things you can be charged with if, say, the authorities take a disliking to you.
I don't have statistics on what percentage of stalking and harassment complaints are bogus. 55 year old men sitting under the canopy and drooling over scantily clad undergrads probably isn't stalking, it's just sad.
By the way, "xenophobic" is commonly used to refer to fear of anyone who is different, not just people from overseas. Most fraternities are xenophobic in that sense, i.e. intolerant of anyone who ain't a country white boy. Sororities too, perhaps to a lesser degree. When I used the example of Wisconsinites never having seen a black guy before, I was only trying to emphasize the general intolerance around the UW and Wisconsin.
My frat is intolerant too, bu hey, there are other organizations for other types. If you're a mermaid, join the aquarium cause you're not getting into Kappas, altho you might try aephi.
Hope this helps.
Catherine Zeta-Jones? Oh I get the reference now! In that movie with the old James Bond guy she is doing all these contortions to show she is limber and nimble enuff to get through the laser beam alarms. That old James Bond dude was staring at her the whole time. I think he was coaching her but one never knows. I think he was drooling too but that might be because he is like old or something.
ReplyDeleteWith that cleared up what is going on with HOI being able to fire or replace the Commodore. Supposed to be a student run organization. Easy way to fix that is to have no one renew membership. Less moolah for the for profit Union and no pretty sailboats for people to watch while they quaff down pitchers of ale and pick bitz a bratz out of their back teeth. Oh yeah withhold your dues and you will get change. You got the power. Even the threat of non renewals would end this power grab.
The movie was Entrapment and that old guy was Sean Connery. Males of all ages look. Upper teens, twenties, thirties, forties...all the way up in years. It's a male thing and sometimes a female thing if we want to stay diverse about this.
ReplyDeleteTaking a glimpse is one thing because it is natural. If someone is being a leering gawker of any age then that is uncool. Someone needs to talk to that leering gawker and explain that Hoofers is not a Gentlemens Club. Seriously! It's called corrective action. They may be a nice person but that behavior is unacceptable. I've done that on many occasions at Hoofers and they more than get the message.
It's like training a dog. You can love them but sometimes you have to take corrective action. Just like with the Union and HOI turning Hoofers into whatever it is they are doing. Like Anon said above send an immediate message. Let them know NOW that because of their actions Club Members are going to unleash such a shi! storm via the media and non-renewals that their behavior will be checked and it will be a big deal. Just like that old geeze gawking at a young bum, they'll get the message. But you have to send a message in a format that they get. The threat of decreased revenue and WHY it happened is what it will take.
Bingo.
ReplyDeleteA-NON
The plan is to turn Hoofers into a UW College Students only (and their guests) club. Except for a few paid elders to manage and run it. Stand and fight, or lose your club forever. It's already in the works. "Alumni" will only be able to sail as a guest, or with special permission of the Sailing Program Director. Which will be guess who, drum roll please...
ReplyDeleteWhat is the main grievance. The one where everyone is like OMG! Is it a repeal of the HOI can fire the Commodore? Pick one and focus energy on that. Then go get 'em.
ReplyDeleteNon-renewal of Club Memberships of say 25% would be a huge hit to the bottom line. It would not take much to make that happen. How about 10% ~ 125 people? I think you have that number already. Some Club Member who works with that number could break that down for us.
Hoofer Sailing Club Alumni? Probably some support there as well.
It all comes down to next steps. Who brings folks together to make it happen? That my friends is where the rubber meets the road. Plan a little get together in a pub or wherever and talk in person. Keep it to 1-2 grievances and focus there. Remember, you have the power via membership and alumni to turn this over. But, the time to act is now.
BTW, think the Union MGMT and HOI read this blog? You betcha. So, best to get crackin' cause the cards are facing up on the table and, Dear Readers, you have the winning hand. So play it.
The shop work is to be farmed out to a professional, and liable marine shop, to ease liability from the Union. This is why and how skipper buds was able to purchase the boat house, and still incorporate all their staff. The keel fleets are finished, to be sold off or allowed to degrade and be scrapped, also to reduce the Union's liability. Only student sailors allows the UW to share in liability and insurance. The UW sailing team is to be moved into the department of UW athletics. Outdoor UW takes over the sailing club in its entirety and hoofer sailing is dissolved... outing and ski/snowboard are to be assigned and re-designated as independent student organizations, not under the union, this again reduces UW and Union liability. Hoofer equestrian and SCUBA are to be disolved, again reducing liability. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!! THIS IS THE PLAN IN THE WORKS!!!
ReplyDeleteIt's not a hit to their bottom line if you account for the reduction in payouts, and insurance claims and damage from stupid shit. THIS IS HAPPENING!!!
ReplyDeleteThis blog is more important than EVER to our future. You need to start hitting back and raising an outcry. THAT is why the fight against Dave Elsmo is important. he was the proof of concept for how to take over a hoofer club, testing the waters to see if there will be resistance was the new alcohol policy and to see if peaceful transition could be affected.
ReplyDeleteWe have a Herald reporter, a Cardinal reporter aboard, as well as a few lawyers, and about 50 Alumni and former board members. The case against Jeff is important because I have heard from 4 current board members that said there was no vote, all of them would have dissented to expanding his suspension if given the opportunity yet the minutes say the vote was unanimous. This is why we need you again. You are the only non bullshit place we can discuss what is really happening. There are a few other cases we have built surrounding many other individuals who have not as of yet consented to our use of their names. We'll need this blog again when they do.
ReplyDeleteThere are few people with the information I have given you, if I get caught, I'll have to resign my post, but so be it. Some things are worth taking a stand on. I know they read this blog, and will all deny what I said. I just needed to get those cards out of their hands and on the table for all to see.
ReplyDeleteYou might be surprised at how things really work in HSC. People say they didn't vote, but it was understood that they "voted" with the commodore - or else they would be kicked off the BOC - by the commodore. So you don't even have to raise a hand, but your vote is understood. Crooked? Yup. Legal? Probably not, but who's gonna bring charges?
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't usually work like that, but on extra important votes, or ones where someone upstairs is pulling the strings, it does.
Is the next board meeting this coming week? or the following week? Id actually like to sit in on one, where can I find a list of current board members? the hoofer site seems to be out of date.
ReplyDeleteSee, if they can do what they want without there being any cost, why wouldn't they do it?
ReplyDeleteTo protect an asset, you have to make the cost of acquiring the asset greater than the value of the asset.
Non-renewal of memberships along with negative attention from press and community makes the acquisition of this asset greater than they are willing to pay.
Make the acquisition cost of this asset much greater than they can pay.
You have the Power, not them. Exercise it. What's our loss? Sailing Club? What's their loss? Their jobs. They want to keep their jobs. Turn it on people!